Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 51 guests. Keep it to 6mm for bog and 3mm for final glaze. They also come in a range of sizes. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. A. Evercoat fillers may be tinted with Evercoat Coloring Agents. This car body filler product is certainly not cheap, but it is undeniably high quality. Filler over bare metal or filler over primered metal? it really makes me re-think some of my personal preferences. - U.S. Army. Although applying and working body filler is relatively straightforward, there are a number rules that need to be adhered to for you to achieve a high-quality finish that will stand the test of time. So here's the next question..do I need to prep the bare metal with anything (acid etch) to prevent rust from forming under the filler? Q. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. This will depend on a number of factors, but generally speaking you should allow around 20 to 30 minutes between application and sanding. Once the dent, ding or hole is filled you can smooth out the filler so it matches the level of bodywork you dont want any bumps! What's best? Ideally, do not expose your primers to the elements.That said, high film builds of epoxy primer are good for many months in all weather conditions whereas etch primers should be painted as soon as possible as theyre only good for a week or two when kept away from the elements. Once bodywork is done do you cover it with more epoxy primer or do you switch to some other build up primer? Adding color to white gel coat will produce a pastel color and adding color to a neutral gel coat will produce a bold color. It hardens in minutes and is nice and easy to sand to a smooth finish and is waterproof. Use and application of any of the site's content is at the user's own risk. Apply another layer of the laminating gel coat and follow with a Mold Release. Come join the discussion about restoration, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! If your bog needs to be 13mm thick, its time to re-appraise your panel beating. Superior Adhesion to Galvanized Steel and Aluminum, 5. Q. "My question is if I sand down the doors for example, can I just apply filler, then prime over? STEP 4. Adding extra hardener is not a solution for using gel coat under 60 F. Gel Coat should always be catalyzed at 2% by weight. Get the panel off (or get behind it with the car jacked up if needs be) and take a hammer to the rear of any major dents. You will have to scuff it up to get filler to adhere, don't use Etch as body filler won't stick to etch primer. The surface should be sanded with P80 grit sandpaper, then wiped clean with acetone. If the area is close to the finished shape, 60 or 80-grit production or free cut paper on a speed file or small block will get the panel level again. A putty/finishing glaze is basically a thin body filler designed for finish work over body filler and to repair small minor damage, such as door dings, hail damage, and scratches. Q. When mixed it takes on a soft pink color for easy visuals when spreading and it is compatible with a huge range of materials. Mix until its a uniform colour without any streaks. j1tuck, I personally appreciate the PPG manual. Metal filler is easily one of the mosy common styles of car body filler on the market. Some people use cardboard but its far from ideal. Once youre happy, re-apply guide coat and sand the whole area with 150 or 180-grit to remove deep scratches caused by the 36, 60 and 80-grit papers, avoiding unsightly sink-backs in the final job. http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/Training/Training-Guides/Custom-Restoration-Guide, http://us.vibrancecollection.com/home.aspx, Painting bare metal prep question. What's the difference between laminating gel coat #105675 and One Step Finish Gel Coat #105671? Even if you dont, were sure you are aware of the principle? It may not display this or other websites correctly. Dont use your car body filler for impromptu dentistry repairs! Lets face it, sanding is not the most fun activity, is it? If there is a layer of epoxy under the filler your somewhat sealing this moisture from your bare metal. We use 36 grit grinding disks to clean and texture the metal before applying filler. Always sand an area a good deal larger than you intend to fill as this will help you to feather out the edges later on. Were being serious here, dont get confused and put a dollop of this in your coffee, it truly is that creamy. A. That is another reason why it is so easy to use because you can trust that it will adhere to the vehicle quickly and efficiently. Our next recommendation is easier said than done! Were going to assume that your vehicle is made of metal. Some more hammer and dolly work may be required, or a whole new panel. If that is the case then it may not be the best idea to select a filler that is only compatible with wood. That extra creamy texture makes it extremely easy to spread, again setting you up for a very smooth finish once dried. What we have here is a professional grade body filler (hence the Gold tag sorry it doesnt actually add real gold to your car body!). A. Looking for 1 quart of all-metal body filler. Of course if you pick up a pre mixed product then you dont have to worry about this! Or rather, dont be afraid to get physical! Applying the filler too thick can also cause pinholes. Any highs or lows will quickly become apparent. This allows you to practice two things before you move onto the car. If these are used, no more than 1 oz. That in turn leads to a smoother finish first time round. STEP 7. Also, before stripping any paint, run a metal body file or sanding board over the area to show high and low spots. Disclaimer: The ideas and methods described in this web site were developed under unique situations. Car body filler is somewhat similar to teeth filler. Damage your car bodywork and put a dent or ding into it, and the car body filler does exactly what it says on the tin it fills the hole or gap left behind by the damage. Again, it is a high quality one with a lot of very interesting features. That way not only will you know how to pick the right body filler youll have all the knowledge you need to use it properly too! Epoxy once dried and cured in about 48 hrs is locked down tight! Q. Well in the section above we looked at how to pick the right body filler for you and your vehicle. The fact that you get 14 ounces of this top quality product for such a low price too is just the icing on this cake. At the same time, you have to remember that if your vehicle is relatively modern (were talking if it was made after 1998 or so) then the metal will almost certainly be galvanized. It is for example a 2-part polyester compound that has been designed to mix very easily with the hardener. Thanks for posting your findings, this is something I've been giving allot of thought to lately since I've noticed little freckles in my paint after 2 years. Click here to purchase Tamco Primers and Clearcoats, Body filler on bare metal or primed metal, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yA8q4K-_Bo, http://industrialfinishes.com/ppg-adds- nt-system/. A. STEP 13. Since these situations cannot be duplicated, you may get different results. Division of Illinois Tool Works Inc. | 6600 Cornell Road - Cincinnati, OH 45242 |, 2015 2022 Evercoat - All Rights Reserved. its vary debatable. I work for PPG and here is there on line refinish program. The filler may not have been catalyzed properly. Period. If a Premium Gel Kote (#105673, 105675, 105676, 105677) was applied without the use of a Mold Release agent (#105685), the surface will remain tacky. But it is also made of other materials. Its nice and long lasting, and will generally remain in place for the remainder of the cars lifespan. A. Gel coat can be reduced up to 15% by volume or 10% by weight with acetone. STEP 8. They need to be lightly tapped down, Never spray over 36, 60 or 80-grit scratches, or you risk getting sink-backs after the car has been painted. products and techniques have changed considerably since then. No. Well, I have been sitting back reading all this stuff and I feel I will chime in this time. However, with so many different types of aftermarket paint available (lacquer, enamel, urethane, water-based), and without knowing the extent of the cure for the paint, or age of the paint is unknown we generally recommend that all paint be removed where filler is to be applied. well take a look at a few of them, starting with: Before you do anything take a little time to assess the damage that you want to repair. A. Firstly, you need to assess the extent of the damage, specifically the size of the area that has been affected as well as the depth of any dents and dings. But it also adds to the premium price tag too, so just what are you getting here? No priming or etching is needed as long as the metal is textured and not rusted. Can Evercoat fillers be applied over bare metal? It is also good to note that this product has been formulated for superior adhesion to galvanized steel and aluminum. For small repairs, you can bog directly over the bare metal. What's the difference between a fiber reinforced filler, a regular filler, and a putty / finishing glaze? If a corrosion protection coating is preferred we recommend to use an epoxy primer and follow the coating manufacturer's recommendations. Once dry the formula is designed to be easily sanded for a professional level smooth finish. Any degree of denting you can hammer back into place is a repair that is not left solely for the body filler to take care off. It also helps avoid nasty paint edges that will shrink back later. That is particularly useful since most of the vehicle is made of metal too. Wow, not to open a can, but what about those of us not in a restoration or collision circumstance? Would that hurt or help the bond of the filler to metal? Yes, fillers can be heated to accelerate the cure or to adjust the cure during colder weather. Evercoat fillers can also be thinned with a premium polyester putty and finishing glaze such as Metal Glaze Ultra, Metal Glaze OEM, or Metal Glaze. General Discussion. Naturally, this product is not designed for smoothing out wider areas of vehicle damage there is simply not enough material in the tube and it would be extremely time consuming! Whether caused by debris strikes, minor collisions or even that time you opened your door too close to that fire hydrant. It is designed to deliver an extremely durable and non-shrinking formula. It's a pain, but it can be removed with the right tools. A. Gel coat can be brushed, rolled, or sprayed. of coloring agent should be used per quart of filler (5% by weight). We dont need to beat around the bush here, 3M make good car body filler. If such areas need filling, apply an epoxy primer first as a base for the bog to adhere to, Dont bog over holes not even small badge holes, Using a bog board with a hard, straight edge is useful for scraping unmixed bog off the applicator during mixing, Dipping the hardener tube in the bog causes contamination; squeeze it out next to the filler, Mixing fresh bog over old, hardened bog slows mixing and introduces lumps, Double dipping when your applicator has mixed bog on it creates hard bits in your filler, If you do end up with an undesirable hard lump in your freshly mixed bog, dig it out or it will show up when you start sanding, If the bog starts going off before youre done, stop immediately! STEP 2. But dont abuse the fact, Small air bubbles will form with overly thick bog applications, Dont prime over solvent-soaked bog. At the same time it can also be extremely helpful to select a filler with compatibility across a wide range of materials. Do you have any questions about body filler? Because of this it is mainly only seen within professional bodywork shops. That has been done to try to reduce pin holing during drying. The better adhesion is accomplished by first applying a good coat of epoxy primer then do filler on top of that. Chopped and Sectioned 1948 Chevy Truck owned since I was 15 in 1974, " Most people doing Collision work can care less if your car rot's out in five year's are not.". Putting filler directly to bare metal is old school. Prepare your documents and head to the DMV! Because the rest of the rust problem is probably from stone chips exposing the filler to water that can be absorbed in the filler and go through to the metal, then the rust can spread under the filler. it is the most complete information guide I have ever seen. It is easy to mix and very easy to spread. In our buying guide, well take you through the features that you should keep an eye out for when picking out the best car body filler for you. But that said, we feel that a good applicator is such an important part of the process that we have just got to shout it again down here make sure you get, and use, a good applicator! Yes, you can sand over the application once it has dried. Filler can be applied directly over them however this is not the case with etch primers. Our Gel Coats can be tinted with Evercoat Coloring Agents at a maximum of 1 oz. Mr. bob.. You are right.. How long should I wait to apply body filler over an epoxy primer? Trust us, it is very much worth the extra little investment. Once in place this body filler product is designed to provide a high level of resistance to water, oil and gasoline. Thank you very much for the answers. The ruler test is also useful here. I don't come here very often anymore because of all of the bickering,BUT, I thought because of my background I would try to do my best to tell what I think is the way to do filler work. As part of the assessment process you should also be checking out what material you need to be working on. So, once blasted, shoot the epoxy primer, then do bodywork. Make yourself at homeread, ask and answer! Q. What we dont understand is why they seem to be embarrassed to admit it! Whilst that may save you some cash upfront in the long run it may be a money burner. However, beginning too soon will result in the bog tearing and clogging the paper or body file, Using a long board in a cross-hatch pattern is the best way to feather out the edges but wait until the bog is very hard, Metal high-spots poking through your bog work wont go away by adding more bog. Use full, even strokes that go past the repair area. Temperatures less than 60 F can promote cure related problems. per quart of gel coat. Q. All rights reserved. Or just metal finish the area out, requiring little to no filler at allever! Car body filler has been the go to solution for at home repairs of this type of damage for decades. Have you dented both the bumper and the bodywork? Uncatalysed bog can flare up after the car has been painted, especially if left out in the sun, Be patient; there is no quick way to complete panel work, Prepare surfaces thoroughly; never apply bog over rust, Bog doesnt take well to lead. Has anyone ever used the all metal method instead of straight out bondo? Beginners should start with workable quantities about the same size as a serve of mash potato. Its general characteristics are that it will resist shrinking after drying and it also provides a good level of waterproof protection. If you are working out in the open in the middle of summer, the drying time is going to be cut back a little. The coverage level is lightweight, making this ideal for tackling surface dings and dents on the vehicle. I would not advise to do so over an etch, or urethane primer, ONLY EPOXY. You want the metal to have scratches so that the filler will bite onto it. Would be better to use a ester resin as in fiber glassing to coat first. It takes a little practice to determine how much bog you should apply in one go. A pressure pot or catalyst injection system should be used for spraying gel coat. What do I do if the finish gel coat is sticky all over after hardener has been mixed into the resin part and proper cure time has elapsed? (Sorry for all the dumb questions). Once cured for 24 hours, key up the epoxy by giving it a light rub with some Scotch-Brite. Plastic applicators are more flexible, cheaper and can be cleaned more easily bog can be popped off by flexing them. Once youre happy and can only see glimpses of daylight between the straight edge and panel, sand the whole area back and key the metal using 36-grit paper. A. Squeeze out 4050mm of hardener to one serve of bog (mashed spud serving). Feathering the edges of the bogged area is the goal, which takes practice. Dry using an air blower, sunlight or a baking oven, When roughing out the basic shape, you can begin sanding before the bog is fully cured. Adding more than that can interfere with the curing process. A small pack of filler is only going to have enough material for a few, small-scale repairs. Broadly speaking there are three types of body filler on the market. It also lets you practice using your applicators, so you will be able to get that filler on nice and smooth when it comes time to actually work on the vehicle itself. These reinforced fillers contain fiberglass and are normally used over a welded area, to repair surface cracks in fiberglass, or to fill small holes, etc. A. Pinholes are a result of trapped air in the body filler. Can Gel Coat be reduced to make it more sprayable? STEP 3. Lastly weather conditions can play a part too. Some of the factors that will affect this include the product you have actually selected, with some brands of car body filer drying a little faster (or slower) than some others). With a somewhat sizeable price tag, this is one of the pricier options on the list today. It is dried and cured in around 20 minutes after application, and once dry it will provide a waterproof finish to protect against rust. Use a crosshatch sanding pattern to prevent digging trenches and be careful not to hollow out the centre. I agree. This provides a higher quality finish at the feather edge of the repair. Well have a newsletter full of advice and entertainment in the near future, but first we need people to send it to! There are a few tips and tricks out there to ensure that you get the most out of your car body filler. thanks:confused: OkI'm convinced! Does it matter? To that end, look for putty or semi-vicious fillers that will work well with spreader tools (more on them in a minute!). Wear a dust mask and work in a clean, well-ventilated area, After each application, and before the bog dries, scrape your applicator and bog board clean, then wipe them with prep wash or other solvent, Mix bog thoroughly. I have used this method on steel keels on boats and it works quite well. This method is particularly helpful when doing restoration work as well, as you want to coat the bare metal as soon as possible to prevent flash rusting after blasting, stripping, or acid dipping the parts. Follow with an application of properly mixed gel coat. No more than 10% resin by weight should be added. We have beat this to death and every time it comes up people make this mile difference between applying filler over bare metal and epoxy primer. Further application will tear up the bog youve already applied, Seeing metal or epoxy primer under the area youre sanding means its time to stop sanding, Bog and its dust are highly flammable dont smoke or weld around it, All metal must be keyed with rough paper like 36 or 60-grit for optimum bonding even new panels, Avoid applying fresh bog over bog that has been sanded very smooth; rough it up with coarse paper first. Excellent. Machines like inline and random sanders are great on hardened bog but always finish off with hand tools. In this next section (because were awesome!) A. Painting my rockers. Never over-reduce with acetone in an effort to make the gel coat more sprayable. Before adding any filler, you should get the metal fairly close. I just don't like filler on bare metal.. :nono: :nono: ''life is only a temporary assignment '' Make the best of it !!! A. Folks, I have the definitive answer! If it clogs the grater or peels away from the panel, its not hard enough. Simply pop the lid off of the tube, squeeze it into the cracks, dents or dings and smooth it down. Can they be applied over paint? Just as we saw with the other 3M products adhesion is outstanding just as you would expect with fillers products from this manufacturer. Another Bondo body filler next, though just like last time it is actually a 3M body filler. A. Polyester fillers require a 50:1 mix ratio of product to cream hardener. It is essentially rust-free. STEP 12. It is also much easier to sand, giving a smoother overall finish than most Metal body fillers. As it is an adhesive compound, it is also naturally equipped with excellent adhesive qualities. So for example look for filler that is easy to mix. Can polyester fillers be applied over a self-etch primer? Blow away any dust as bog will not take to dusty or painted surfaces. Its like icing a cake wipe, dont dab. A. You are using an out of date browser. If its old, throw it out, You can apply more bog over epoxy primer than bare steel. If there is no defined time or procedure a general guideline is to allow 24 hours and sand that area lightly with P80 up to P180. Some coating manufacturers may have a defined time and procedure for the application of polyester filler, so contact the coating manufacturer for their recommendations. I've seen the rust under old bondo too but what kind of adhesion do you have over epoxy sealer? Thanks. 3M Dynatron 492 DynaLite Lightweight Body Filler, 6. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Fibreglass fillers are mixed the same way (steps 5 & 6), but go off a lot quicker so beware! Thats what I did on the job here. No, resin alone has no strength and will crack if not used with fiberglass cloth, mat, or tape. Metal or plastic applicators can be purchased from your local automotive paint outlet. A person could leave the panel in the sun to warm it up and evaporate the moisture, then apply filler while it is still somewhat warm, but why go through that bother. Never apply epoxy over etch, though the other way around is okay. You want to be looking for a few things here. Well one of the big standouts is the fact that the compound has been formulated to contain Hattonite. Therefore we would very much recommend picking up a good set of spreaders at the same time as you are buying your body filler. Best results are usually achieved by spraying with a gun designed for Gel Coat. If so, keep an eye out for body filler than can bond with both plastic and metal and you could make some savings here. The general recommendation is to sand the filler or putty with the same grit that was used to prepare the surface. Mix up your filler then apply it to your practice surface. We would very much recommend that you read the included instructions with whichever filler product you go for, though a general rule of thumb is that the mix will be one part hardener to fifty parts filler. What's the minimum temperature that Gel-Coat can be applied? Mix the hardener in with a scooping up and folding back onto itself action. When I was first starting out in the trade, I was taught to run a course disk over the metal then apply filler directly to the metal. Q. STEP 9. This can weaken the gel coat and cause a loss of gloss or adhesion issues over time. It boasts an advanced resin technology that is designed to provide an easy application and a very smooth finish after sanding. I have been reading around on the forums, trying to pick up enough information to give my first panel a go, and I have become a little confused about when to apply body filler. If you sand through to bare metal just apply another coat of epoxy primer then finish off with a quality 2K primer/surfacer. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. You can apply some body filler products to bare metal, provided that the filler itself is formulated to bond with metal. 3M body filler is good stuff. Any thoughts??? Run the palm of your hand over your work if it feels bumpy, it is bumpy. Today's epoxy primers are a great way to seal and protect bare metal. What type of gun do I need to spray Gel Coat. But for spot fixes of small areas of damage it is easy to use and provides very good value for money. It's a good idea except body fillers are made of Ester resins ( poly ester, vinyl ester and so forth) and they don't adhere as well to epoxies. It can also be applied onto of a base layer of metal filler to give a very smooth, premium finish. Low spots should be brought up and high spots tapped down, using either hammer and dolly or a panel slapper, possibly along with some heat shrinking. 2022 Recurrent. Note that finishing glazes are designed to adhere to smooth bog or abraded paint, Check existing bog-work isnt over rust or paint by sanding it back with 36-grit so that you can see the edges, If a bogged panel has been unsealed for some time or has been contaminated by oil, grease, sweat, oil-based solvents or paint stripper, rip it all out and redo the lot, A new tin of bog may have resins floating on top mix them in before pulling any out for mixing. This gel coat is a laminating gel coat, and it is designed to remain tacky between layers for easy re-coating. Applying several layers isnt uncommon before the panels ready for paint. This quality is especially easy to see in the high grade manufacturing process that Evercoat has brought to the table here. It is, as we said, the principle that remains similar. I'm restoring a 52 Chevy half ton. Finally, and we already mentioned it above so apologies for repeating ourselves! This article was first published in the July 2007 issue of Street Machine. The next product well look at, Permatex 25909 Liquid Metal Filler, is all about ease of use. People make statements that would lead the unknowing into believing that on a scale of 1-100 putting filler on bare metal is at 2.5 along with painting without washing the car and epoxy over the bare metal at 100 as the ONLY way. Body fillers have gone up in quality since they came out and will stuck to pretty much anything as long as it's prepped/sanded. Bondo (and 3M) have a well-earned rep for making great car filler products and this example is from the premium end of the market. After that, well take a look at how best to use your new tool and answer some of the most frequently asked questions about this extremely useful product. It hardens relatively quickly, and once set the filler has a formulation designed to be sanded down with ease for a premium, ultra smooth finish. You can potentially save a lot of time and money here too. After all, to answer our flippant question above, yes the vehicle probably is made of metal. The main difference here is that, as the name implies, it is a lightweight formula. Which one is better comes down to personal preference. Not only do you get a lot of product, you are also getting a lot of high quality product here. The surface of Laminating gel coat remains tacky for re-coating purposes. Well kick off our list with this product, a Bondo body filler though its actually made by 3M (Bondo is a brand name) so technically its a 3M body filler. It is boasting a range of outstanding features, many of which add to that feeling of a really high end product here. One step finish gel coat is ideal for smaller repairs as it does not require the use of a mold release agent for complete cure. As time has progressed so too has body filler itself, and today you can find high quality products for lower than ever prices. Lightweight is therefore ideal for repairing shallow surface damage. If you damage your tooth, a filler is used to inject a tough material into the tooth to repair it. Once youve done that you can apply a layer of paint and it will be as if the damage never occurred in the first place. JavaScript is disabled. This brand of filler also has a huge range of compatibility with a number of materials like metal, wood and concrete. Follow this with a thorough air-gun blow-off. STEP 10. Q. They can ruin your cars appearance and they can lower the resell value all in all they are pain in the backside. Get a piece of scrap wood or something flat but stable like an old wooden clipboard literally anything, an old pizza box will do! If you dont use a clean applicator, youll end up with hard lumps in your bog which will give you all kinds of dramas when skimming the panel.
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best body filler for bare metal