I do think Scud takes the medal Ergo's came out the following year (the ones with the orange plastic handdle).And Simond revamped the Scuds a few years later and also renamed them. I'm not sure about those safety tests either. Sure, it will push the envelope for the good people out there, but even for people like me, the Ergo is f&$@ing amazing. The difference was that with Fuel they simply modified Fusion IIs to be more like Nomics, creating the Fuel. Even on very low angle spots mid pitch before getting steeper, no problems whatsoever. The Grivels do look good and I would be liking the Tech Machines if it wasn't for the handle, but not sure about the carbon shaft in Scotland. The original ones will take some beating in ice. sometimes involving pitons and the occasional bitof tooling. Again, nothing unusual Ive seen much worse on other tools, and besides, these small nicks dont affect grip or functionality. Great question I do love my X-Dreams, and with the new picks, weights, and other head/attachment options, they can now be customized as much as the Ergo. Plus with it beingCNCd, its very durable and isnt susceptible to wobbly heads or flexing etc. Of course its still not a good idea to use tethers for anything more than ensuring you dont drop a tool! After two years of regular use and abuse, I am happy to report that the Ergonomic has had no major issues. I was looking at the BD Fuels or - the rather extreme option - some Grivel Master Alloys? Thoughts on that? It also has no adjustment for different-sized hands on the lower hand-rest. The Master is a good shout for an awesome all rounder that ticks most of the boxes. Theyre looking a bit more used now, but are still in remarkably good shape for how many days theyve spent out in the mountains. I climb ice, rock, trees, buildings, whatever: it's all fun! I am surprised it is continuously marketed as for extreme grades only. Just couldn't imagine climbing Unicorn with a Carbon tool. Has the option for a hammer and removable pick weights. With Cassin alpine ice picks I use the Cassin weight picks, which I ordered separately. I spotted this too, they are now very similar to the ergonomics. Quark is good. The first step will be the introduction of the new modular picks with newly sold tools. Unfortunately the Lynx front points arent getting any cheaper at $80 USD per pair. Feed back was phenomenal but Petzl decided differently. I'm still not sure why Nomics have such a cult following with all the issues, but that's another story. The best way I can describe climbing with the Ergos is that theyre an extension of your hand, but an incredibly precise one with tenacious grip. Skip to the beginning of the images gallery, Copyright 2019-present LDR Srl - All Rights Reserved - P.IVA: IT04165860240. Fortunately, unlike the original Sirocco, the new Duetto doesnt look like a dick. When it comes to performance, these tools still astound me every single time I use them. The new Reactor is basically a direct copy of the X-Dream. It will come in 1 size (53-61) and two colors: blue or grey. There are more but the top list shows innovation. The Dark Machine X is very similar to the Dark Machine in construction just with more aggressive geometry for steeper climbing. Have you met any other punters like myself who love this thing? Features include an adjustable nylon harness system, four headlamp clips and a small brim. A requirement for high mountain and glacier travel. Dont like the dreams to be honest. Two things are certain, it will be outstanding tool and it will be super expensive. On the downside is that it eliminates handle adjustment options like those found on the X-Dream, Nomic, etc. Also so when you put a mixed pic on the Master, it climbs mixed amazingly. Perhaps I'm being over-cautious? A friend of mine broke a pick recently as well on mixed. A full carbon-fiber shaft keeps weight to a minimum, and textured handles help your gloves stick without over-gripping. All rights reserved. I broke a handle trig rest in the first season but no signs of the problem repeating. I meant Master Alloy in the post above. Again, outrageous price, but maybe all these axes can be found cheaper somewhere. Well I keep them for alpine routes and have a few pairs of beater axes for Scotland. Could be a cool axe but I do wonder how they fare on a proper mixed. If you want some cash for them then let me know. I'd buy another set of X-dreams tomorrow if I had to, although I'd consider the Grivel axes as well as they look similar, and the Grivel picks look really good, so probably no need to retrofit. But then again, one less thing to break (Yes people have broken the bolts/handle on the X-Dream). The handle on the reactor is horrible, especially when trying to use the upper grip. I much prefer the X-dream handle as it feels more positive and it's nice to have a proper spike on the base of the handle to clip leashes. Alongside those early photos came comments like game-changing and next-level. Trying them for myself at Petzls press release event in Ouray a year or so later, I was also suitably impressed but knew the real test would come on my home ground back in the Canadian Rockies, on routes I knew well, and weather conditions I am more familiar with. I've found the X-dream picks are a bit of the soft side. Grivel offers six different picks for the Dark Machine, which are also compatible with five of their other ice tools. They are absolutely phenomenal. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site. Exotic, how about the Octa Ice and dry axes. 2022 Outdoor Gear Exchange, Inc., All Rights Reserved. Albeit I think Camp/Cassin might have also upgraded their picks. I absolutely love my Ergos, but I spend a lot of time on steep drytooling routes, as well as having the luxury of multiple sets of tools in my gear closet. The new Dark Machine is a technical, ice climbing focused tool that weighs in at a measly 470g. Are you mistaking it for the Force Alloy, as they are very different animals? Still the one sided pick attachment puts me off BD for tooling. Petzl lost me as a customer due to the repeated wobbly head problem. Swinging these overhead into bulges and tops of mushrooms is pure joy and revelry in how solidly the picks stick even when you cant see them. That sort of carbon shaftgenerally isnt a fan of impacts (or at least thats what I learnt in my studies ) and I'd rather not snap my axe mid ice pillar a day after having climbed a mixed route! For reference, most major manufacturers use hot forging for their technical picks while after-market companies tend to use CNC machines to cut picks from a sheet of plate steel as the set-up costs are significantly smaller. And yet, Petzl was at the week long ice camp in Norway so I got to use whatever I wanted for mostly 3+ up to 4+ ice. The stock finish is quite slippery. But with better hammer option. Don't discount the Reactors, the x-dream's are pretty flexible in the handle so not very confidence inspiring, just don't know anyone who's used them. Whatever you want to know about the Bozeman area's outdoor activities, lifestyle, wildlife, amenities, and culture it's all right here. Theres nothing new about the pick design aside from how they connect with the rear accessories. Just had a look at the Dark Machines. So are you just referring to surface damage? It was a new model of the original Fusion. Why not just mend your Nomics if you like them? The Slinger, a single lanyard designed for piolets, received the same upgrade with a new carabiner and color change. Perfectly balanced, equipped with weights, it offers an exceptional swing. The grip is comfortable, thanks to the ergonomics of the handle and to the adjustable Griprest handrest. BD doesn't do anything exciting any more. Thaught they were very good on ice tbh. This goes for both the Ergonomic and the current-generation Nomic; its great to see Petzl took these issues seriously and rectified them. The picks that will now be hot forged are: Grivels new Duetto helmet is similar in construction to Petzls original Sirocco in that its made entirely of EPP. i was so disappointed with the Fusions on Ice (laser picks) that I'm staying away from BD till I get the chance for a proper test myself. The Alpinist Tech will come with anti-balling plates and full automatic toe and heel bails. Cheers for all of your pretty detailed responses! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10217059523673528&set=a.10211778831219517&type=3&theater. Of course Ive already published an article specifically about climbing footwear so wont include anything of that nature here. Rather well be looking at more technical equipment such as ice axes, helmets, harnesses and the like. Please help UKClimbing continue to provide varied and free content by becoming a UKC Supporter, or UKC Supporter Plus which I had a pair of Cobras I wrapped in magnesium oxide tape and coated in plastidip for that reason. Its an alloy tube wrapped in carbon, so it will be very durable. MSRP will be $249.95 USD. But seeing how their last copy performed, I'm going to let someone else find out. Following WI 5 is the limit for me right now. But if you want a dedicated pair of tools for steep ice and overhanging rock, I cant think of a better choice than the Ergonomic. Really more of a tether than a leash in my mind but updated all-the-same. Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Mountain Hardwear Alpine Light 35 & 50 old vs new, Patagonia DAS Light REVIEW and Micro Puff Comparison. Open Today: 10:00 am - 7:00 pm. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. Lighter but slightly shorter than the Nomic and not as aggressive / crap on ice as the master alloys.Only downsides is the serious cash and difficulty of getting spare parts. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. So for those that start on a clean slate, X-Dream might end up being a better options, simply because they currently are cheaper. I may well be wrong and feel guilty as I climbed a lot with Takoons which were essentially the same axe. So, despite being a fan, Ithink it's time for a change. This days it is really hard to make something new or radically different. X dreams, I really rate mine. On rock their only downfall comes on very laid-back terrain where the aggressive curve makes for awkward handle angles. That said I would take the chance on the Ractor if the price was right not the Grivel at that price! Fusion 1, Nomic (all), Scud, Takoons (+new versions), Cryo, Force carbon, Aspeed, X-dream, Anchar2, anything by Austrialpine. The Pur'Ice pick provides efficient placement in any type of ice. Need the best times to visit Yellowstone Park? Special thanks to Raf for a few photos (Camp/Cassin Products) to replace several I lost due to some data corruption. Funny, everyone keeps saying the ErgoN is awkward on easy ice. Weight, weigh distribution and how things work are a completely different thing. So Fusion 2 is a copy of the Nomic - check. At 95g (3.4 oz) lighter per tool, the Dark Machine takes noticeably less effort to finagle into precise placements when you're getting pumped with your hands above your head. Cassin is also coming out with a modular pick/accessory system which will be phased into use starting next fall. The handle itself is made of carbon while the shaft is made of a carbon-aluminum composite. The swing didnt seem outstanding either. Ive lost track of how many pairs of picks Ive swapped, or how many times Ive re-wrapped the upper shaft. I haven't used them on any serious routes because I'm too scared of the damage that would occur. My Nomics sat around as I climbed almost exclusively on the Ergo. I have the Quantum Tech and don't think they would stand up well. I know Petzl made a small run of Nomics, 2nd generation, whit ergo type handle way before X dream ever came to market. But if the handle works for you, the Dark Machine's weight savings over the aluminum-shafted Nomic are a huge reward. I've noticed that some people are using them in the ice world cup this season so must be good. Yep. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. In that case just wrap the shafts in some tape as many climbers do anyway. View all posts by Monte Johnston. Naturally for me, it makes sense as I already use BD picks. Not at all, I've just got a pair of aspeeds and don't want to use them because they are to nice! I saw something on the Simond website recently claiming the Scud was the first tool with an offset lower handle designed to be purely leashless. We will get back to you within one business day. The result is a lightweight (810g), 12 point crampon with the functionality of a mono-point on rock but the stability of dual points on ice. UKClimbing Limited. Not to mention every back issue ofOutside Bozemanat your fingertips you can search the site by topic, view articles by specific authors, or scroll through each issue article by article. I was going to throw the eclimb Cryo 2 into the mix, but it looks like they're not making them anymore. The new reactor looks very similar as well. The PurIce pick is precise and ice penetration is easy to manage. Well I had them send me some details on next years product line so they could be included. The new picks will be hot forged where, in the past, they were cold forged. Of course, performance is one thing, and durability a whole other question. I upgraded from Nomics to Fuels after the head wobble began. That said even the original Fusion works on ice. Never seen them in the wild. Greg Boswell is singing the praises of the new Grivel Dark Machines, if you can hang around until they're commercially available. Climber, photographer, Scotch aficionado. (Though I suspect Grivels Dark Machine X will give the Ergo some solid competition when they finally show up.). Upon closer inspection it appears that the rubber covering is press-fit into small channels in the plastic grip, and I would imagine was also glued down to the griprest at some point. I now climb with the little BD tool on my harness for quickly re-tightening if necessary. Two weeks ago, I ran across a guy that was using a prototype of Grivel Dark machine X. Nomic like swing, toyish weight and super comfortable handle coated with rubber stuff like on all other dry tooling tools from Grivel. If you could only choose one tool between the Ergo & X-Dream mainly for steep ice, which one would it be? Maybe the Reactor is more like the Fusion 1 i dunno. Fuel was tweaked Fusion 2 the be a bit more like Nomic (on Ice). One of the disadvantages to hot forging is the additional finishing work that is required. Grivel mmmm , not sure, I never rated their handles and doesn't look like the Dark Machines are much different. UIAA page doesn't seem very real wold. From the early photos friends sent me, it was already starting to take shape and beginning to resemble the tool we now know as the Ergonomic (though I still continue to call them Ergos). I could see the shaft getting obliterated after couple of mixed routes. That part of the handle does look awkward but then so does the x-dreams. I was looking at the BD Fuels or - the rather extreme option - some Grivel Master Alloys? Ialso found the Cobras pretty disappointing on ice. With the Dry pick on, the way these tools hold onto tiny rock edges is nothing short of astonishing, and this works in ice as well: a tiny ledge that most tools would pop off of is a solid hold for the Ergos. Unfortunately I dont have any photos of the crampons so youll just have to deal with some stock images from Petzl. Ask Petzl, however, and theyll tell you this is by design: if you want an all-around tool get the Nomic the Ergo was designed for steep and overhanging terrain and that is where they excel. Good luck with your quest for a replacement.Jeff. The bd reactors are a bd copy of x dreams so I guess will be good also but I haven't seen them to compare. These tools excel anywhere thats overhanging or horizontal, and they feel equally comfortable in large pockets as they do on small edges. Petzl is updating the Dart and replacing the Dartwin with a single new crampon which theyre calling the Dart. Feel free to message me for more details on Grivel tools. Not all that innovative but very functional. (function($) {window.fnames = new Array(); window.ftypes = new Array();fnames[0]='EMAIL';ftypes[0]='email';fnames[1]='FNAME';ftypes[1]='text';fnames[2]='LNAME';ftypes[2]='text';fnames[7]='MMERGE7';ftypes[7]='dropdown';}(jQuery));var $mcj = jQuery.noConflict(true); Simple Vario: A spacer for the back of the tool, Plastic Insert: just a spacer that fills in the accessory cut-out (stock on new tools Fall 2019), Hammer: small 42g hammer that looks very similar to the hammer currently found on the ice pick. No rush to replace this winter, see what next year or the sales bring. Conversely, Ive only heard good things about the Reactors. I'd go for Xdreams, tried and tested and never heard anything bad about them, only praises. It's worth retrofitting the axes with some Russian or Polish picks for mixed. I climbed withFusions recently and were terrible. Can't find a good spot to go backcountry skiing? Grivel is testing Dark machines for three years now and God knows what they experimented during this time. Any suggestions for a new type of axe out there? Some glue will take care of the loose rubber, but this is the kind of minor wear and tear I was not expecting to see on tools that cost almost $1000 Canadian for the pair ($480 Cad PER tool! I've used X-dreams since 2017 and pretty happy with them. And assuming you're climbing with two tools, that's over half a pound less to carry on the approach. X-dreams , I am also a proud nomic (first gen) user and have not had any issues at all with mine but I wouldn't buy the new ones. Looking to get started in a new outdoor sport? Otherwise generally seems the BD tools are lagging behind Cassin/Petzl a little in terms of climbing ice. I haven't used them on any serious routes because I'm too scared of the damage that would occur. The MSRP for the new Darts has not been set for North America yet but will go for $220 Euros across the pont. Taking drytooling out of the equation. Featuring a minimalist hammer, the head is protected and allows the user to hammer a piton back in. Monte uses the combination of his guiding experience and civil engineering background to critically analyze equipment and apparel providing in-depth reviews on exhaustively tested gear. Welcome tooutsidebozeman.com, southwest Montana's outdoor resource. Articles, maps, gear reviews, events, photo galleries if it's outdoors and southwest Montana, it's in here.
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grivel dark machine vs petzl nomic